Confession of a Woman Called Claesken, in the Year 1559

Questions and answers between the commissary and Claesken

The commissary first questioned me about my name, where I was from, my age, and other such things. He then asked me: "Are you baptized?" Claesken. "Yes." Commissary. "Who baptized you?" Claesken. "Jelis of Aix la Chapelle." Commissary. "The deceiver; he himself has renounced his belief. What did he do when he baptized you?" Claesken. "He baptized me in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." Commissary. "Where did you receive baptism?" Claesken. "At Workum, in the field." Commissary. "Were there others present?" Claesken. "Yes." Commissary. "Who were they?" Claesken. "I have forgotten." Commissary. "What brought you there?" Claesken. "I have forgotten."

I could truthfully give this answer both times.

Commissary. "Are your children not baptized?" Claesken. "My youngest two are not." Commissary. "Why did you not have your children baptized?" Claesken. "Because I was satisfied with them as the Lord had given them to me." Commissary. "Why were you so satisfied with Abraham and Sicke, and not with Douwe? You had Douwe baptized." Claesken. "I did not know it then." Commissary. "What did you not know then?" Claesken. "What I know now." Commissary. "What do you know now?" Claesken. "What the Lord has given me to know." Commissary. "What has the Lord given you to know?" Claesken. "That I cannot find in the Scriptures that this ought to be." Commissary. "How long has it been since you went to church?" Claesken. "Not for nine or ten years."

These are the questions he put to me; but he used far more words, and when I did not answer him readily, he said that I had a dumb devil in me, that the devil transformed himself into an angel of light in us, and that we were all heretics. He then read to me the articles I had confessed, and said that it would come before the lords, and that if I wanted, he would write it differently. I replied: "You need not change anything."

Questions and answers between the inquisitor and Claesken

Inquisitor. "Why did you have yourself baptized?" Claesken. "The Scriptures speak of a new life. John first calls to repentance, Christ Himself also, and afterwards the apostles; they taught the people to repent and reform, and then to be baptized. So I repented and reformed, and was baptized." Against this he did not say much. Inquisitor. "Why did you not have your children baptized?" Claesken. "I cannot find in the Scriptures that this ought to be." Inquisitor. "David says, 'I was shaped in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.' Psalm 51, verse 5. Since children are born with original sin, they must be baptized, if they are to be saved." Claesken. "If a man can be saved by an external sign, then Christ has died in vain." Inquisitor. "It is written, John 3, verse 5, that we must be born again, of water and of the Spirit; therefore children must be baptized." Claesken. "Christ does not say this to children, but to adults; therefore I was regenerated. We know that the children are in the hands of the Lord. The Lord said, 'Let the little children come to me; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'" Matthew 19, verse 14. Inquisitor. "The household of Stephanas was baptized, which probably also included children." First Corinthians 1, verse 16. Claesken. "We do not depend on probabilities; we have the certain assurance." He did not say much against this either. Inquisitor. "What do you think of the holy church?" Claesken. "I think much of it." Inquisitor. "Why then do you not go to church?" Claesken. "I think nothing of your churchgoing." Inquisitor. "Do you believe that God is Almighty?" Claesken. "Yes, I believe this." Inquisitor. "Do you then also believe that Christ consecrates Himself, and is present in the bread? Paul says, 'The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And the cup which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?'" First Corinthians 10, verse 16. Claesken. "I well know what Paul says, and believe it, too." Inquisitor. "Christ said, 'Take, eat; this is my body;' and Paul likewise." Matthew 26, verse 26; First Corinthians 11, verse 24. Claesken. "I well know what Christ and Paul say, and this is what I believe." Inquisitor. "Do you believe that Christ consecrates Himself, and is present in the bread?" Claesken. "Christ sits at the right hand of His Father; He does not come under men's teeth." Inquisitor. "If you continue in this belief, you will have to go into the abyss of hell forever. It is what all heretics say. Jelis of Aix la Chapelle has deceived you; he himself has renounced his belief, because he saw that he had erred." Claesken. "I do not depend on Jelis, or any other man, but only on Christ; He is our foundation, on whom we have built ourselves, just as Christ teaches us in His Gospel: 'Whoever hears my words, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock; and though storms come, and beat against the house, yet it will not fall.' Matthew 7, verse 24. These now are the storms that beat against our house; but Christ is our stronghold, and He will preserve us." Inquisitor. "You do not understand it; there are many other writings, of which you know nothing." Claesken. "We need no other writings than the holy Gospel, which Christ Himself, with His blessed mouth, has spoken to us, and sealed with His blood; if we can observe that, we shall be saved." Inquisitor. "You should let yourself be instructed; the holy fathers instituted churching* fifteen hundred years ago." [n811-1] Claesken. "The holy fathers did not have this holiness; these are human commandments and institutions. Neither did the apostles practice this holiness; I have never read it." Inquisitor. "Are you wiser than the holy church?" Claesken. "I do not wish to do anything against the holy church; I have yielded myself to the obedience of the holy church." Inquisitor. "You should think: Do I know better than the holy fathers fifteen hundred years ago? You should think that you are simple." Claesken. "Though I am simple before men, I am not simple in the knowledge of the Lord. Do you not know that the Lord thanked His Father, that He had hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and had revealed them to the simple and to babes?" Matthew 11, verse 25.

At one time there were also two monks with him, who were to instruct me. They had but little to say, only that we were people of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. First Timothy 6, verse 5; Second Timothy 3, verses 7 and 8. I replied: "When the day of the Lord comes, you will find it to be otherwise; take heed that you are not then among those who will say, 'These are they whom we had in derision; behold, how they are now numbered among the children of God, and their lot is among the saints.'" Wisdom of Solomon 5, verses 3 and 5. Then they said: "Behold, she judges us." I replied: "I do not judge you; but I tell you to take heed to yourselves. Now our life is accounted madness, and our end to be without honor; but when the day of the Lord comes, it will be found quite different." The sum of the matter was, that I had a devil, and was deceived. I said: "Is Christ then a deceiver?" He replied: "No; Christ is no deceiver." I said: "Then I am not deceived; I neither seek nor desire anything else than to fear the Lord with all my heart, and (knowingly) not to transgress one tittle of His commandments." After he had talked to me still further, he said:

"I can tell you nothing else; you may consider the matter." I replied: "I need not consider it otherwise; I know full well that I hold the truth."

When I came before him again, he said: "Claesken, what conclusion have you come to?" Claesken. "I have concluded to hold to that to which the Lord has called me." Matthew 20, verse 1. Inquisitor. "The devil has called you, who transforms himself into an angel of light in you people."

When he examined me the sixth time, he asked me: "When Christ held His supper with His apostles, did He not give them His flesh to eat, and His blood to drink?" Claesken. "He gave them bread and wine, and He gave them His body for redemption." Inquisitor. "Christ certainly says plainly, 'Take, eat; this is my flesh;' you certainly cannot contradict this." Claesken. "Paul says, 'I have received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread; and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave it to his apostles, and said, Take, eat; this is my body, which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of me. After the same manner he also took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you show the Lord's death till he comes.' First Corinthians 11, verses 23 to 26. So Christ left us His supper, that we should remember His death by it, that He gave His body and shed His blood for us. This supper I want to hold with the people of God, and no other."

He held to his twaddle: that we must eat Christ's flesh, and drink His blood, since these were clearly implied by the words of Christ and of Paul.

Claesken. "Since the words are so plain, I can well understand them; but it is as Paul says: that those who do not turn to the Lord have a veil before their hearts; but those who turn to the Lord, from their hearts the veil is taken away. Second Corinthians 3, verses 14 and 16. We have turned to the Lord; nothing is hidden from us." Inquisitor. "In the sixth chapter of John (verse 53) Christ also clearly says that we must eat His flesh, and drink His blood." Claesken. "It is also written there: 'Then the Jews murmured, and said, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Christ said, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, you have no life in you.' Again, He says, 'Whoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life.' He also said, 'Flesh and blood profit nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.' Those who believe in God, and walk in all righteousness, they are temples of God, in whom God will dwell and walk, as Paul testifies." Second Corinthians 6, verse 16.

When he examined me the seventh time, he said: "Do you not believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ?" Claesken. "Christ took the bread, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to His disciples, and His body He gave for their redemption." Inquisitor. "Do you not believe otherwise?" Claesken. "I do not believe otherwise than Christ has spoken." Inquisitor. "Then I declare to you, that I am clear of your blood; your blood be on your own head." Claesken. "I am well satisfied with this." Inquisitor. "With this I commit you to the Lord."

Afterward he examined me once more, and asked me: "Do you not yet believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ?" Claesken. "I have told you." Inquisitor. "Tell it now." Claesken. "I will not tell it again." Inquisitor. "Do you still persist in your views about baptism?" Claesken. "You certainly know well that the penitent ought to be baptized." Inquisitor. "This is true enough, if for instance a Jew comes who is not yet baptized. Are you still of the same opinion about infant baptism?" Claesken. "Yes." Inquisitor. "Do you not believe otherwise?" Claesken. "I do not believe otherwise than Christ has commanded." Inquisitor. "Then I declare to you that you will be tormented forever in the abyss of hell." Claesken. "How dare you judge me so dreadfully, seeing that judgment belongs to the Lord alone? Acts 17, verse 31. I am not terrified by this; I know better; when the day of the Lord comes, it will be found otherwise."

I then asked him: "What does my husband say?" Inquisitor. "Your husband also still persists in his views; may the Lord enlighten you." Claesken. "We are already enlightened, the Lord be praised."

About my baptism he did not say much, nor about infant baptism; but the whole of his talk was that we must eat the flesh of Christ, and drink His blood, and that this had been instituted fifteen hundred years ago, and that I was simple and had hardly read the Testament through even once. I said

"Do you think that we run on uncertainties? We are not ignorant of the contents of the New Testament. We forsake our dear children, whom I would not forsake for the whole world, and we stake on it all that we have; should we run on uncertainties yet? We seek nothing but our salvation; you certainly cannot prove to us from the Scriptures that we practice and believe one tittle against the Word of the Lord." But he only said that we had it all from the devil, and that we were possessed by the devil of pride. I said: "We know that the proud are cast down from their seats." Luke 1, verse 52. He talked so long that he sometimes began to imagine I would heed him; so I had to speak now and then, because I did not want him to think this; I could not bear to hear him speak so dreadfully against the truth.

A letter by Claesken to her friends according to the flesh, and also according to the spirit, written in prison, the 14th of March, in the year 1559, at which time, or thereabouts, she, her dear husband, and her brother Jacques, were put to death for the testimony of Jesus

The Lord, through His great grace and mercy, grant that all those who hunger and thirst after righteousness may be filled.

My dearly beloved friends, N., my heartfelt prayer and request of you is once more that you will read and search the holy Scriptures, and learn to fear the Lord from the heart; for "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 9, verse 10. "Wisdom cries out in the open; she lifts up her voice in the streets; she cries out in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she speaks her words, saying, How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit on you, I will make known my words to you. Because I have called, and you refused: I have stretched out my hand, and no one regarded; but you have set at nothing all my counsel and would have none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear comes; when your fear comes as desolation, and your destruction comes as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish come upon you. Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; they will seek me early, but they will not find me; because they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord: they would have none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore they will eat of the fruit of their own way and be filled with their own devices . . . but whoever listens to me will dwell safely, and will be quiet from fear of evil." Proverbs 1, verses 20 to 31 and 33; Isaiah 65, verse 12; Psalm 2, verse 4; Job 27, verse 6.

Behold, my dear friends, lay this to heart, that the Lord will not hear those who do not fear Him now (John 9, verse 31); and how precious the fear of the Lord is to the one who will choose it; for nothing is to be compared to her. The fear of the Lord is honor, and glory, and gladness, and a crown of rejoicing. The fear of the Lord makes a merry heart, and gives joy, and gladness and a long life. Whoever fears the Lord, it will go well with him at the last, and he will find favor in the day of his death. The love of God is honorable. Those to whom wisdom shows her face love her through seeing her, and in the knowledge of her benefits. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; and the fear of the Lord is true religion. The knowledge of religion will keep the heart, and justify it; it will give joy and gladness. The God fearing will prosper in the day of life, and at his end he will be blessed. To fear the Lord is fullness of wisdom. The fear of God is a crown of wisdom, making peace and perfect health to flourish. The root of wisdom is to fear the Lord: but to the sinner wisdom is a curse. The fear of the Lord drives out sin; for he who is without fear cannot be justified. Sirach 1, verse 11. Do not be faithless; for wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul, nor dwell in the body that is subject to sin. John 20, verse 27; Wisdom of Solomon 1, verse 4.

My beloved friends, lay it to heart, how great a difference there is between those who fear the Lord, and those who do not fear Him. Malachi 3, verse 18. Search the Scriptures well, so that you will not be like the cities about which Christ says in the Gospel that because they did not lay to heart His mighty works, which were done in their presence, it would be more tolerable for those of Sodom and Gomorrah at the day of judgment than for them. Matthew 11, verse 20. Therefore, dear friends, the Lord does still even now show such mighty works through us before your eyes; let it strengthen you, as Paul says that many of the brothers grew confident in the Lord through his bonds, and were much more bold to speak the word without fear. Philippians 1, verse 14. My dear friends, consider well: when the Lord did his mighty works, he did not do them for the sake of a single individual, as we read in John, when He raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11, verse 42), but that the people should see His mighty deeds, and believe in Him, though only some believed in Him, and some were offended at Him, and said: 'Could not this man, who opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?' Thus it is also at the present day with those who do not believe; for though they see well how strong and mighty the Lord is with us, yet they are offended at it, and say that we do this out of stubbornness. And when we say that the righteous must suffer persecution, they say that we are persecuted for anabaptism. Thus it is to them a cause of offense; but those who believe God know well that we must suffer for righteousness' sake; these, I hope, it will strengthen, and to us it will be a trial for our eternal salvation, through the grace of God. First Peter 2, verses 6 and 8; Matthew 5, verse 10.

My dear friends, lay to heart how great glory is promised to those who fear the Lord with the whole heart, and what great anguish will come upon every soul who has not obeyed the Gospel; these will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. Second Thessalonians 1, verses 8 and 9. Therefore become obedient to the truth, and be transformed in your mind, that you may prove what is that acceptable and perfect will of God. First Peter 1, verse 22; Romans 12, verse 2. Meditate day and night on the law of the Lord, and do not let yourselves be kept from praying without ceasing, as the Scriptures teach us in many places; he who asks receives: to him who knocks it will be opened. Psalm 1, verse 2; First Thessalonians 5, verse 17; Matthew 7 and 8. So, my dear friends, have your hearts transformed, and the Lord will give to you even before you ask Him; for blessed are those who are of a good will. Luke 2, verse 14. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they will be filled." Matthew 5, verse 6.

Therefore long for the Lord with a sorrowful heart, and say: "Show me your ways, O Lord; teach me your paths. Lead me in your truth, and teach me; for you are the God of my salvation; on you do I wait all the day. Remember, O Lord, your tender mercies and your lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old. Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to your mercy remember me, for your goodness' sake. Good and upright is the Lord: therefore he will teach sinners in the way. The meek he will guide in judgment: and the meek he will teach his way." Psalm 25, verses 4 to 9. Therefore, my dear friends, repent sincerely, and confess your sins before the Lord with all your heart; the Lord is found by those who are of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Isaiah 66, verse 2. Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that you may be exalted in eternity. First Peter 5, verse 6. With this I commend you to the Lord; may He guide you into all truth.

My dearly beloved friends, take it to heart, for it is done out of the sincere, ardent love which I have for your souls, because I am certain and assured that there is no other way by which we can be saved; so I warn you out of a pure heart, and it will never be found otherwise. Therefore, though some have much to talk or say, they do this because they do not want to take up the cross of Christ and be persecuted for it, as Paul says (Galatians 6, verse 12); but [let us] take it for an example, that we are to follow Christ's steps, and that all the Scriptures constrain us to submit ourselves to suffering and prepare for it, even as Paul also says: "If we suffer with him, we shall also rejoice with him" ; and as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds by Christ; and we also read that all the holy men of God were tried by many tribulations and sufferings (Judith 8, verse 25), and how they would joyfully receive sufferings; indeed, that they greatly rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of God; but those who do not truly love the Lord want to be exempt from suffering, and love this temporal life more than their Lord and God, although Christ says: "Whoever seeks to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's shall save it forever." Mark 8, verse 35. Not that we must all die for the Word of the Lord; but the mind must be in such a state that we would rather die than once knowingly and willingly transgress one of the Lord's commandments; so Christ says

"He who loves anything more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10, verse 37.

Therefore, my dearest friends, whom I love with all my heart, do not regard what men say, but look only to Christ Jesus, how He went before us in tribulation and suffering. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your power and strength; indeed, though the whole world should rise up against and assail you, no one can harm you, if you have God for your Father, and if you have true love to God and His saints; for love can do all things (First Corinthians 13, verse 7); but where there is no true love, there will soon be confusion, when persecution and distress come (Matthew 13, verse 21); but for him who commits himself to the Lord, and who possesses love, nothing is difficult; had I not experienced this myself, it would be impossible for me to know that it is so easy. So Christ says: "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11, verse 30. Yes, dear friends, this is still my mind, and I so love my Lord and God that if I could save my life by a thought, and knew that it did not please the Lord, I would rather die than think such a thought. Not that I am boasting; the Lord well knows how vile I have shown myself before Him; but it is through the great grace and mercy and love shown us that we are elected to His heavenly kingdom. Ephesians 2, verse 7. Only now do I feel within me the inexpressible grace and mercy of God, and His love, and how we therefore ought to love Him in return (First John 4, verse 19); indeed, this grace and love are so great before my eyes that my sorrow is turned into joy.

I must further relate to you something of the sorrow which I had before I was arrested. Now I remember the words of the apostle, that I have had godly sorrow, and that godly sorrow works repentance to salvation. Second Corinthians 7, verse 10. Indeed, I had such sorrow at times that I did not know where to turn, and sometimes cried to the Lord with a loud voice, saying: "O Lord, crush my old heart, and give me a new heart and mind, that I may be found upright before Your eyes." Ezekiel 36, verse 26. I said to my dear husband: "When I apply the rule of the Scriptures to my life, it seems to me as though I must perish." I may well say with David: "My iniquities are gone over my head: as a heavy burden they are too heavy for me." Psalm 38, verse 4. I said: "My dear husband, pray the Lord for me; I am so harassed; the more I direct my thoughts to the Lord, the more the tempter assails me with other thoughts." First Peter 5, verse 8. So I cried to the Lord, and said: "O Lord, You surely know that I desire nothing but to fear You." My husband would comfort me sometimes; it seemed to him that I did nothing but what could stand in the sight of the Lord. I said: "I do not have my first love (Revelation 2, verse 4); therefore I grieve, so that I cannot sleep. There is no hope of dying to sin; I expect to live a long time yet; though I strive ever so much to reform, yet I remain as vile as ever: 'O wretched man that I am, where shall I go?'" Romans 7, verse 24.

I would have written more to you, but the messenger came and informed me that we were to go [die]. My dearly beloved friends, such was the joyful sentence my husband, and I, and our brother heard: we showed each other such love, and had such a glad heart. I thanked the Lord so greatly that the lords all heard it. They ordered me to keep silent, but I spoke fearlessly. When we had heard our sentence, all three of us spoke, and said that they had condemned righteous blood, and other words. My dear husband spoke so kindly, and said so often, with a glad countenance, that all the people saw it: "Yes, we thank the Lord!"

With this I commend you to the Lord. Hurry to come to us, and that we may live with each other in eternity.

Another letter or confession of Claesken

When we were before the full council, we were addressed by the Procurator General of the council, who presented to the lords a general statement of what we had confessed before the commissary, and made a long speech about how long we had not been to church, that we had not had our children baptized, and that we were Anabaptists; and he said that according to the decree we had forfeited our lives, and that our property had passed into the hands of the king. So he accused us before the lords, and harangued us about life and property, and when he had related how and where we had received our baptism, he asked us whether we would hold to our baptism. We boldly and fearlessly said, with a glad heart, that we had received one baptism according to the command of the Lord. Our brother Jacques said that if the contrary could be proved to him with the Word of the Lord, he did not want to act contrary to His Word.

My husband said that he would hold to his baptism. And I said, as our brother had said, that we had received one baptism according to the Word of the Lord. Every time he said: "Just as you think." He then asked us whether we did not want an advocate. Our brother said: "The Lord is our Advocate." First John 2, verse 1. With this we went away. We went from the council glad and joyful, though it was to cost our lives. Acts 5, verse 41.

Since that time, my husband and our brother appeared once before the pastor of the Old Court, and on Sunday in Lent all three of us were before the steward, our brother first; he had a long conversation with him, and proved it to him with the Scriptures, so that he could not say a word against it, except that it was from the devil, since there were many in hell, and that ours were the worst; then my husband was brought before him, and then I was. When I appeared before him, he began to speak of infant baptism, of my baptism, the necessity of eating the flesh of Christ, and many other things. I said: "You need not bring these matters up; it is not given to me to dispute with you. I tell you flatly, I will hold to that in which the Lord has called me." He replied that the devil had called me. I said: "Is it now the nature of the devil to turn away from evil, and do good? It is with us as the prophet says: He that departs from evil makes himself a prey. Isaiah 59, verse 15. So it has gone with us; from the first day that we forsook our vain, wicked life, we were hated by everyone, as Christ says: 'You shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.'" Matthew 10, verse 22. He says: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do; but fear him who has power to cast soul and body into hell." Luke 12, verses 4 and 5; Isaiah 51, verse 7. Yes, Him alone we fear. He insisted that I should express myself about infant baptism, and the eating of the flesh of Christ. I said: "It is not worthwhile for me to answer your questions; they are so useless. I have told you enough; I shall tell you no more; we have had enough of it." I said: "Wake up, and pay attention; you certainly see that what the Lord enables us to do is not in human power, that we can leave our dear children, indeed, joyfully give up our lives, for the honor of God." I said: "Take heed what you do; we are God's holy people, His chosen.

Though all your learned men in the whole world should agree, they cannot prove to us with the Word of the Lord that we believe or act contrary to the Word." He said that we at least did not believe that the apostles ate the flesh of Christ, and drank His blood, and Christ says: "Take, eat, this is my body." I said: "Christ took the bread, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to His apostles. When He took the bread, broke it, and gave it to them, the bread was certainly not flesh; He surely did not give them His living body to eat, when He stood alive among them; but He gave His body for redemption, not for them alone, but for all who should believe in Him." However, he was not to be convinced, but held to his old tune.

Our brother had proved everything to him so clearly with the Scriptures, that he could not say a single word against it. Our brother spoke very loudly so that those who stood outside the chancery would hear how clearly he proved it to him. I also spoke as loudly as I could, with a glad heart; whatever the Lord gave me to say I spoke fearlessly; to relate all of it would take too long. He constantly repeated that we had the devil in us, that the devil transformed himself into an angel of light in us, that we were possessed by the devil of pride, and that we must go forever into the abyss of hell. So he did every time we were before him. I said: "As lightly as you consign us to the abyss of hell, so highly are we exalted with the Lord."

As for infant baptism, he knew nothing to say, except that Christ says: "You must be born again of water and of the Spirit." John 3, verse 5. I said

"Children cannot understand the new birth; Christ said this to adults; therefore we have put off our old life, and put on a new life. We well know that our children are saved before the Lord." He then cited David, how he was born in sin. Psalm 51, verse 7. Our brother had explained it to him clearly, yet he remained as ignorant as ever. When we had ended our conversation, I asked him what my husband said. He replied: "Your husband also persists in his views." I said: "What will you do with my poor husband, who cannot read a word?" He replied: "Your damnation will be greater than that of your husband, because you can read, and have seduced him." With this I left him. Afterward Claesken, her husband, and brother Jacques were drowned, for the testimony of the truth, at Leeuwarden, in Friesland, in March, 1559.